Thema: Was spricht gegen die Obito-Theorie?

RomeoMustDie

Ich meine, zu beispielsweise Izuna passt das doch nicht wirklich, oder?

Es könnte trotzdem hinhauen!
-Das Alter könnte passen.
-Das würde auch erklären wieso Tobi zurückschreckte als er Edo Madara zu Gesicht bekam.
-Das würde auch das Wissen über Madara erklären.
Nur eine Sache spricht dagegen und zwar,wie er wiederbelebt wurde,er ist ja schließlich tot....

Tobi ist nicht Madara, jede Wette.
Das gehört aber auch gar nicht hier her.

RomeoMustDie

Tobi ist nicht Madara, jede Wette.
Das gehört aber auch gar nicht hier her.

Das ist eigentlich auch 100% sicher. Madara ist nun vollkommen auszuschließen.
Übrig bleiben
- Zetsuklon
- Izuna
- Obito
- Shisui
- Ein Uzumaki, der sich das Sharingan angeeignet hat

Cao Cao

Übrig bleiben
- Zetsuklon
- Izuna
- Obito
- Shisui
- Ein Uzumaki, der sich das Sharingan angeeignet hat

Und vielleicht auch noch ein überlebender des Uchiha Clans,oder eine ganz Fremde Person

Shisui könnte überlebt haben?
Shisui hat doch selbstmord begangen,und Itachi erhielt dafür die MS was also heißt das er tot ist,oder irre ich mich da?

FinalSasuke

Shisui könnte überlebt haben?
Shisui hat doch selbstmord begangen,und Itachi erhielt dafür die MS was also heißt das er tot ist,oder irre ich mich da?

Nun, das mag sein, aber Obito hat man zuerst auch vollkommen ausgeschlossen und nun ist er wieder mit im Boot. Kishimoto treibt ein Spiel mit uns. Vieleicht wusste er ja, das wir Tobis Identität kannten und änderte die Story (scherz)

Naja, ich werd vorerst Shisui wieder einsetzen als Möglichkeit. Aber der Zetsuklon steht bei mir an erster Stelle. Warum kann Tobi das Jutsu eigentlich, obwohl er im Gegensatz zu Kakashi kein MS hat?

Cao Cao

Nun, das mag sein, aber Obito hat man zuerst auch vollkommen ausgeschlossen und nun ist er wieder mit im Boot.

Aber bei Shisui ist es anders.
Itachi hat die MS bekommen weil Shisui selbstmord begangen hat.
Und wenn man die MS doch erweckt hat,heißt es das die Person die man getötet hat tot ist,etwa nicht?

FinalSasuke

Aber bei Shisui ist es anders.
Itachi hat die MS bekommen weil Shisui selbstmord begangen hat.
Und wenn man die MS doch erweckt hat,heißt es das die Person die man getötet hat tot ist,etwa nicht?

Aber Kakashi bewies auch, das man es ohne töten einer nahestehende Person, erreichen kann. Vieleicht schaltete diese "gute" Seite ja auch andere Jutsus frei, als diese Höllentechniken. z.B hat Kakashi nur Kamui genau so wie Tobi sowas verwendet^^

Cao Cao

Aber Kakashi bewies auch, das man es ohne töten einer nahestehende Person, erreichen kann.

Ob Itachi das auch so gemacht hat?
Darüber können wir nur spekulieren...

FinalSasuke

Ob Itachi das auch so gemacht hat?
Darüber können wir nur spekulieren...

Itachi und seinen besten Freund umbringen? Selbstmord? Wenns klappt.

Cao Cao

Selbstmord?

Shisui hats so gewollt,und Itachi hat ihn deswegen umgebracht.

FinalSasuke

Shisui hats so gewollt,und Itachi hat ihn deswegen umgebracht.

Ob man das durchgehen lassen kann? XD

Sasuke wurde in 2 Jahren auch viel stärker oder nicht ?
Und ratet mal wieso Orochimaru etwas mit Tobi zutun hat.

FinalSasuke

Shisui hat doch selbstmord begangen,und Itachi erhielt dafür die MS was also heißt das er tot ist,oder irre ich mich da?

Das MS bekommt man durch einen emotionalen Schock, das hat nicht direkt etwas mit dem Tod zu tun. Es ist natürlich leicht, einen emotionalen Schock zu "erzwingen" indem man seinen besten Freund absticht, aber das MS kann man auch erwecken indem man zum Beispiel nur den Eindruck hat - das heißt Itachi mag zwar denken dass Shisui tot ist, das muss aber nicht bedeuteten das er tatsächlich tot ist.

Pazu

Sasuke wurde in 2 Jahren auch viel stärker oder nicht ?
Und ratet mal wieso Orochimaru etwas mit Tobi zutun hat.

Sasuke ist aber talentierter und hatte mehr Potenzial. Außerdem sind die Umstände ganz anders.
Aber ganz davon abgesehen: das ist nur ein Grund der gegen die "Anti-Obito-Theorie" spricht.

Kaykero

Das MS bekommt man durch einen emotionalen Schock, das hat nicht direkt etwas mit dem Tod zu tun. Es ist natürlich leicht, einen emotionalen Schock zu "erzwingen" indem man seinen besten Freund absticht, aber das MS kann man auch erwecken indem man zum Beispiel nur den Eindruck hat - das heißt Itachi mag zwar denken dass Shisui tot ist, das muss aber nicht bedeuteten das er tatsächlich tot ist.

Das würde erklären wie Kakashi auch seine MS bekommen hat!
Als Rin gestorben ist stand Kakashi unter Schock und erweckte etwas später seine MS?!

FinalSasuke

Das würde erklären wie Kakashi auch seine MS bekommen hat!
Als Rin gestorben ist stand Kakashi unter Schock und erweckte etwas später seine MS?!

wäre möglich. Aber was ich nicht verstehe, sagte Kakashi nicht das er das Kamui während des Zeitsprungs erlernt hat?

Tay123

Aber was ich nicht verstehe, sagte Kakashi nicht das er das Kamui während des Zeitsprungs erlernt hat?

Doch und in dieser Zeit könnte auch Rin gestorben sein

FinalSasuke

Doch und in dieser Zeit könnte auch Rin gestorben sein

Nope, die war wohl schon davor tot. Chapter 177 Page 6~ meinte Kakashi zu Sasuke, dass bereits alle Personen die er geliebt habe, getötet wurden.

ich hab hier eine theorie, die mir bis jetzt am besten gefällt, da sie eigendlich keine wiedersprüche aufweißt. zudem kompiniert sie meine eigenen theorien, welche sind:
tobi= zetsu oder topi= izuna!
sie ist recht lang, aber daher auch schön ausführlich!
(vllt. ist aber einzuwenden, das die "begründung" ab narutos geburt etwas weit hergeholt sein könnte...)aber bis dahin top!

I was thinking and this hit me like a ton of bricks so be prepared to have your mind blown.

From the interview Kishi said Madara and Tobi knew one another. Now look at Kabuto's edo tensei jutsu. It brings the dead back to life.

Now for the mind Blown Part.

Edo Tensei brings back the person from at the time of their death, not them in there prime.

Edo Madara is a young man in his late 20's early 30's at most.

Now look at Edo Chiyo, she looks like the old woman as always. Now why would Kabuto keep her like that and not put her back in her prime physical state when she was in her youth.


That proves that Madara died around the time he fought the 1st.

Now Obito would not even be born for decades. As Hiruzen would be very young around 10-15. Now we have to go through generations just to get to Obito even being born. Jiraiya, then Minato, then Obito.

Now for when Tobi fought Minato, he physical appearance change way to much as well as his fighting style. To little time has passed, Minato would have known who he was fighting just by body language, voice tone, and fighting tactics from his own student.
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Madara and Obito have never met.

Now lets look Tobi everything he says we must take with a spoon of salt as he does lie about most things.

Tobi is a collector of Sharingan's in his own little hideout. This proves one of 2 things. He has been killing off Uchiha's clan memembers for generations and stealing there eyes OR the more likly one. He has been grave robbing. For every Uchiha that dies he takes there eyes from there bodies.
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Now lets look at Tobi's abilities he has shown 2 jutsu so far.
The ghost jutsu that we all know and hate.
And Izanagi and jutsu that REQUIRES both Uchiha and Senju DNA for it to work.
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Now look at when Tobi was injured. His arm becomes goo and we have to assume he has Zetsu make up. But what makes him different is his face so he was the original Zetsu type being who later created the zetsu of today.
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Now as we look back Madara only spent time with 2 people in his life of any note. Hasirama and Izuna.

As he pretty much hated the first as well as had a super inferiority complex to the guy the only choice can be is Izuna.

There were many rumors that Madara stole his brothers eyes to get EMS but we also have a side he gave them up. But in either case we do see a dead Izuna at his funeral.

Madara in the later years would gain the Rennigan and would experiment with the Gedo Maizo and Zetsu. With the only person he cared for gone and wanted him back more than anything managed bring back his brother with the body of Zetsu and his mind reconsitituded similar to Orochimaru is back.

Not soon after Madara will fight Hasirama and lose at the valley of the end. Nearing death he would be saved by Izuna. Madara then inplants the peice of DNA he stole from the first into the tree so that it could grow over the next few decades. But after inplanting it Madara would soon die but he would collect his brother Rennigan.

Izuna unable to be alone tries to recreate his brother's experiments and bring him back like he was. But he was unable to for the most part but he used the cells of the first and was able to make the Zetsu we see today, half black and half white. Madara cells being Black and Hasirama is white.

The attempt was unsuccessful as they in turn gained there own personalities but at the same time similar to the originals they came from and the form was far differnt from both originals as they looked like a monster.

But because of the attempt he lost his only chance to bring his brother back and now he was stuck with this monster he had created.
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Because Izuna had a zetsu body he lost his Sharingan and was not born again with it and not even a new one. Tobi hated everything in the world, his own clan turned there back on him and his brother, he hated senju for killing his brother, he hated the new leaf village, and the whole world.

But his zetsu body was weak and not ment for combat and would get damaged easily which forced him to repair himself with Zetsu material and in turn give him Senju DNA.
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Izuna was forced to find other ways to fight so he went grave robbing and steal sharingan's from his dead clan members. This would lead him to experiment with differnt eyes and find out their individual powers as such as he noted that when Sasuke got Susanoo that it was a rare power. Each eyes were different.

He also would do other experiment's such as implanting his brother's eyes into the child Nagato.
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Time skip and this is the only part where Obito comes up. Izuna comes up to find Obito's dead body and the damaged right eye under the bouldar. He took the eye and with some work managed to repair it. While it took kakashi many years to even get MS with Izuna's skill it was a easy matter of gaining the MS form but with the damage from the rock it would never take it's MS form even though the powers worked.
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Even though Izuna had Uchiha DNA he didnt have the body of a Uchiha which forced him to keep his Sharingan always active.
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Izuna with Obito's eye found a very rare power that no other Sharingan had it could protect him and his body from getting damaged so he kept that on his person at all times which gave him the ability to fight back even with his weak body.
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With a way to fight and his other experiment with Nagato was proving a sucess he had a plan to change the world.

But he got wind about the pregnant Kushina. But also the Uchiha clan got wind of Izuna and both decided to make a play on the other.

On the day of birth Izuna made his formal appearance in front of the Uchiha clan at the temple. He would attempt to bring them over to his side and help create the new world he wanted so badly. But he was surprised the Uchiha loved their village and would protect it.

Izuna angry used mass number of White Zetsu to fight the clan as he got word about the location of Kushina and left to find them.

The Uchiha fought hard against the Zetsu but unknown to them Izuna had taken control of Kurama as was laying waste to the village but there were busy fighting the Zetsu to help but the village noted they were all gone at the time and in turn putting seeds of doubt in there minds.

Izuna failed to get Kurama but managed to put the Leaf against the Uchiha.

The Uchiha coudn't tell village what really happened but they did tell 3 people about what really happened to insure there protection. Danzo and the two elders only Hiruzen didn't know the details.

Danzo offered them protection by gaining support from Shisui.

But still the village turned there back on the Uchiha which in turn made them bitter as even though they fought for them they were left alone which made them think Izuna was right there never could be peace between them. There they made plans for a coup over the next few years.

During those years Itachi was placed in ANBU as a spy but during his work he found out about Izuna from Danzo. Knowing he would make a choice to kill his clan and protect the world from a ninja war and save countless lifes. But still he needed to keep protecting the world so he sought after Izuna and got him to help with the revenge but the real purpose was to get into his new organazation the Akatsuki founded by Nagato.

Itachi killed his clan and protected his brother and the village. Danzo then took the time to collect the Sharingan eyes from the dead Uchiha members and have them put into his arm as well as Shisui's.

Itachi would collect intel and send it to Danzo during this time. That is why during the fight of him vs Sasuke he had to keep himself prepared to fight Izuna and use Shisui's MS to put down Izuna for good but Sasuke killed him while he was forced to hold back.
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Now Izuna wanted Shisui's eye badly as Koto was a very rare ability and would have proved usefull to his plans but it got crushed by Danzo.

Izuna had to prepare himself so he had to track down Konan and get his brother's eyes back for himself. He then planted a Rennigan eye into his body as well as keep Obito's eye as he needed it to keep protecting his weak body.
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Now he used the Rennigan power to bring back the path's of pain so as to even more help protect his body.
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But currently because of few misteps he was forced to bring back the 10 tails early using a arm of the 8 tails and the gold and silver brothers 9 tails chakra.

RomeoMustDie

Völlig richtig, dennoch wird auch die Seele beötigt. Tobi könnte also nur dann Madara sein, wenn er a la Voldemort irgendwie seine Seele gespalten hat.

Vielleicht hat Kabuto iwie Madaras "alte" Seele bekommen .
Weil der Edo Tensei Madara sich ja schon ziemlich arrogant verhält, während der jetztige Madara immer einen kühlen Kopf bewahrt.

Oh man sieh es ein madara ist vollkommen abgeschlossen es gibst nix mit alte seele und neue seele man hat nur eine seele.